Just bought one!

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Stian
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Registriert: 22.06.2004, 13:51
Wohnort: Oslo, Norway

Just bought one!

Ungelesener Beitrag von Stian »

Hi all!

I finally bought an S6 Plus, one of only eight here in Norway. It's a very rare car here in Norway, not so strange considering that they new in 1996/97 cost about 180.000 euro. They get a lot cheaper when registered with only two seats (because you don't have to pay so much taxes and stuff), but still the cost about 32-40.000 euro today... Anyway, I bought mine a month ago, and it looks like this (it is 100% stock):
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I used to have a '93 S4 2.2 with a chip and sport exhaust. I don't know how much HP this car had, but I guess around 300. Now, when I bought the S6 Plus, I expected it to be a bit faster than the S4. To my big surprise the S6 Plus is slower. Can this be right? The car is in excellent condition, although it has quite a high mileage (207000km), but this shouldn't affect the performance considerably. Besides the car doesn't show any sign of the high mileage other than the number on the odometer.

I really expected the Plus to be at least as fast as my old S4... Heck, it doesn't even outrun my friends '00 Mercedes SLK 230 Kompressor.

Here’s the times of a run I have clocked in both cars:
S4: 80-120 in 3rd: 3.7 seconds
S6 Plus 80-120, start in 2nd, end in 3rd: 4.8 (I think it was).

And I can't seem to launch the car from 0 to 100km/h any faster than 6.8-6.9. So I’m wondering if there is something wrong with the car, or is this the performance it should have?

(Don’t get me wrong, the car is absolutely beautiful, it’s not all about the performance ;))
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Larsa
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Ungelesener Beitrag von Larsa »

Hi,
It´s 326 Hp and 400 Nm in the Plus an it should do 0-100 km in 5,7 sek. The 2,2 turbo with chip is i think more Nm 400-450 Nm and about 280-290 Hp.
Mabye Marc can fill in..
Stian
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Registriert: 22.06.2004, 13:51
Wohnort: Oslo, Norway

Ungelesener Beitrag von Stian »

Yeah, that's just about what I've heard about the S4, Larsa. I think a "stage 2" chip equals 303HP, and a lot of torque (450nm++). I don't know exactly what chip was in my old car, but I think it was an Abt Stage 2. The turboboost was 1.3-1.6 bar (stock turbos)...

Oh, and I know what the official 0-100 times are, I just can't seem to get it that low... The S4 launched to 100 in 5 secs.
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Marc Welsch
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Ungelesener Beitrag von Marc Welsch »

Hi Stian, a nice car you have bought! Is it really true, that you have only two seats, no rear-seats?! I never hered that before...

Now to your problems, I drove several S4 2,2. Without any hardware-changement it isn´t possible to get more than 270-280 hp out of this engine, this is the maximum for a chip-tuning.
The 2,2 S4 is lighter than the PLUS, but 45-55 hp should equal this differnce. For that the PLUS must be as fast, as your S4. If the PLUS doesn´t have this performance you should look for problems.

1. You should look for the engine-black-box, maybe, it´s one of a normal A8.
2. Also you should look for the failure memory of this blackbox. It has a dry-running operation programm.
3. Sometimes the airflow sensor gives wrong information to the engine, that you should check as well.

If you like, I would like to take you into my drivers-list...

Finally I have one question for using this forum. Your user-name "Stian", is that your real-name? The reason of my question is, that everybody should use his real-name in my forum...
Schöne Inselgrüße Marc

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Stian
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Registriert: 22.06.2004, 13:51
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Ungelesener Beitrag von Stian »

First thing first: No, my name is not P.l.a.c.i.d, that's just an alias. Didn't catch the name policy, sorry about that. My real name is Stian, feel free to change my username :D
And I would be honored to be added to the drivers list :wink:

Oh yes, it's really true, my car has only two seats:
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I'll try to explain why the car gets cheaper because of this (this is a typical Norwegian law):

Cars are very expensive in Norway, because of a lot of taxes. If you are to import a car, you’ll have to pay tax on weight, engine displacement and horsepower, plus regular tax of the price of the car. If you for example are to import a ’97 S6 Plus that you pay 15000 euro for, you’ll have to pay 35000 euros in tax.
Then sometimes during the 80’s came a law that said that cars with only two seats are exempt from most of the taxes, because most cars with two seats are big van (like the VW Transporter, Merc Vito etc.), and are used as transport/work cars, so this law was made to ease the economics of the transport business. But as a lot of sport cars has two seats as well (Lambo, Ferrari etc.), people started registering these cars as vans as well, getting them real cheap. So a new law came, saying that the luggage compartment must be a certain size. This eliminated the exotic supercars, but still most wagons could be registered as vans. This is the reason why my S6 Plus has two seats, the price is about half of what it would have been with five seats. And STILL it’s 2-3 times more expensive here than in Germany. Not fair…

And now the performance part:
I know my old S4 was tuned more than the standard hardware could cope with. There was an occasionally engine knocking due to over boost (made it go into failsafe mode), and the clutch, which was brand new, sometimes slipped in 5th gear because of the torque. My best guess is ~310HP/500nm. Anyways, the difference between the S4 and my S6 Plus is quite large, so I’ll be sure to check out those things you mentioned.

Thanks!
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Marc Welsch
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Ungelesener Beitrag von Marc Welsch »

Ok, but the rear-seats are still there. If you like, you could use them in ten minutes...

For the drivers-list it would be nice, if you colud give me the last 3 numbers of the car-identification-number, and the month when it was build in 1996.
Schöne Inselgrüße Marc

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Stian
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Registriert: 22.06.2004, 13:51
Wohnort: Oslo, Norway

Ungelesener Beitrag von Stian »

Yes, I could very easily put up the rear seats, but if I get pulled over, the police confiscates the car, and I'll get a nice little fee of no less than 30.000 euro :!:

The last three numbers are 742, and I think it was built 07.96 (it says so on a little plaque on a steering rod or something, to the right of the engine).
Stian
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Registriert: 22.06.2004, 13:51
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Ungelesener Beitrag von Stian »

According to this test, the S6 Plus should do 60-120 in 4th gear in 9,5 seconds, and 80-140 in 5th gear in 11,6 seconds. A dynamic test like this is quite easy to compare to, since it's basically just to floor the throttle. I started just below 60/80, and started the clock when the needle passed the mark. And as i expected, the clocked stopped at 10,3 at the 60-120 test, and 12,5 in the 80-140 test.

So, almost a second slower at both tests... Can anyone else try this, and see what they get?

About that black-box Marc, why is it that it could be a normal A8 box? And by black-box do you mean the ECU?
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Larsa
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Ungelesener Beitrag von Larsa »

Marc Welsch hat geschrieben: 2. Also you should look for the failure memory of this blackbox. It has a dry-running operation programm.
3. Sometimes the airflow sensor gives wrong information to the engine, that you should check as well.

2. How do one check this?
3. And this, if its not expencive with a new one mabye its better do replace to be sure.

The rules for what we call "Light truck" a car without a rear seat is the same in Sweden as in Norway but not that high fee and the taxes are different.
And last, http://www.ts-tuning.net/index.htm could do something at the torque on the the plus, its limited to 400 Nm standard.
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Marc Welsch
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Ungelesener Beitrag von Marc Welsch »

@Stian: Yes, with the black-box I ment the Engine-Control-Unit. The original PLUS-ECU is extremly rare, I heared several times, that someone took a normal A8-ECU, if the original one gets broken...
Another reason for the dry-running-operation-programm could be the Lambda-sensors in the exhaust (the PLUS has two of them). This should be part of the failure-memory-report aswell.

@Larsa: To check out the failure memory of the ECU you have to go to Audi or you need a interface with a special software, VAG-Com it´s called. The air-flow-sensor isn´t really cheap, in Germany it costs EUR 458,20.
Schöne Inselgrüße Marc

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J Boone
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Ungelesener Beitrag von J Boone »

Congratulations--this is a very beautiful example :)

It is too bad about your performance problems--if you can't smoke a Kompressor then there must be something wrong since the SLK 230 is a much slower car unless it has had some heavy tuning. :?

Your prices seem crazy :shock: For the price you quote for S6plus in Norway you can have a good RS4 here in Italy
TobiasM
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Registriert: 27.03.2004, 20:40
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Ungelesener Beitrag von TobiasM »

Hi there!

Both - stian + jboone- congrats to your new car`s!!!

Stian, I can share the impression of driving a car, that is not slow but doesn`t feel like 326HP/400NM.

When I bought the car and first drove it home I clocked the time 80-120 in 5th gear. Don`t ask me about the exact time, but it was the same time as my standard-160HP/260NM SAAB 900turbo from 1988 did!!! And the Saab has only a 2-litre-engine and a Garrett-T3-turbocharger which means: TURBO-LAG !!!

And as you mention "slk 230 kompressor", I can tell you that I had a chase with a slk 1 week ago on the A31. The A31 is a 2-lane autobahn near the netherland-border with very few traffic, so we could fight each other at highspeeds. I had to skquirt anything out of my 6-speed-gearbox and pusch the car into 7.000`s revolutions to get rid of the slk. As my car is limited to 250 (which is 260 on the odometer), I could`nt really get away from the slk. It was quite disappointing...

So with broken self-confidence I was invented to another chase by the an actual S4-Avant (344HP/410NM) on autobahn A2 this week. The surprising thing was, that I wasn`t reasonably slower than the S4.

So my car confuses me a bit about its performance...In my opinion, it is a lot too heavy, at least 300kg. I am always looking for a Saab 9000CS Aero (225HP/350Nm) or 9-5 Aero (230-250HP/350Nm+) to chase on autobahn, but my beloved swedish-supercars are very rare in germany. But I had already another negative happening with a Saab 9-5 tid (180HP), with was a lot faster in high-gear-acceleration vom low speeds at the beginning of an autobahn.

Though I love the PLUS, I am sure to save my money for lightening and/or implanting an RS6-engine ;)
Es grüßt:

TobiasM

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[b]Audi[/b] S6 PLUS Avant "Blau macht glücklich !"

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Marc Welsch
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Ungelesener Beitrag von Marc Welsch »

Three month ago I had contact with a Aero 9-5 on the motorway. It was much slower, than the PLUS, he had no chance above 220 km/h. Today even Saab´s are very heavy cars...
Schöne Inselgrüße Marc

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TobiasM
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Ungelesener Beitrag von TobiasM »

hey marc, is there any car which didn`t get heavy by the years? *inlovethinktoGOLF-I-GTI*

As I already mentioned, it maybe the effect that we all got used to power + speed, so we don`t realise the forces as much or intense as a "normal-car-driver" would do!?! Do you have your PLUS unlimited in v-max? In 6th gear the car isn`t that fast from 180-240 km/h (4.500-6000rpm). My impression is, that the car gets really alive above 6.000rpm, but at half of the way to the rev-limiter at 7.000, my speed-limiter sets in at 260 or 6.500rpm. So, how would you define "It was much slower, than the PLUS, he had no chance above 220 km/h."? What is "much slower" ???

But to save the PLUS`s honor: my best friend, driver of an ultra-over-performing VW Jetta II (90HP), always screams for joy, when I push the pedal to the metal ;)

And one word to gianconomo (written correctly?), who is asking in his "handy-logo-thread" for a character-describtion of S6turbo vs. S6 V8: my impression is just the other way arround, as you intend it to be: the turbo is the beast, the V8 the smooth, unspectecular performer. And if you want to tune your car, a turbo always is the better /easier choice, as Marc already mentioned...
Es grüßt:

TobiasM

________________________________________
[b]Audi[/b] S6 PLUS Avant "Blau macht glücklich !"

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Larsa
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Registriert: 07.02.2004, 10:28
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Ungelesener Beitrag von Larsa »

Hi,
When they drive the Saab Aero Turbo at Topgear they sad that the Saab is faster than a Ferrari from 80-120 km/h on highest gear. This has always been the Crown for Saab that they have a lot of Nm when you need them and they are the best standard turbos.

A Saab Aero (original 250 hp 370Nm !! ), with chip stage 1: has about 260hp 420 Nm !! for only 700€
stage 2: 265 hp 435 Nm for 1500 €
stage 3: 285 hp 450 Nm for 2600 € this is with the original turbo on.
and next 305 hp and 475 Nm
and next 320hk 495Nm

Be whare from 80 upp to 180 at least.

When i meet them on the freeway i have 5500 rpm on the tacho at least to be shure..... :)
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